Friday, 15 February 2008

Men's convention

I'm going up later today to Katoomba for the Katoomba Christian men's convention.

I am hoping that the music won't be as good as it was at ENGAGE conference, for reasons previously stated. But I promise not to complain too much if it is.

And very much looking forward to some good Bible teaching and a catch up with other men from church.


Murray said...

May a plague of good music follow you wherever you go, now and always. Amen.

Craig Bennett said...

I also say Amen...or should that be Preach it brother????

Gordon me thinks maybe you prostestethh to mucheth?

If having a good music ministry is Biblical, then either you are worried that Hillsong's music ministry is Biblical and you don't want to admit it? Or you are more worried about what man thinks and compares one to Hillsong and not what the Bible actually says about having a decent music ministry and engaging with culture where they are at.

rd said...

So how was it?

Anonymous said...

Looking forward to reading what your thoughts were, Gordon (just need to make sure I avoid any talk spoilers, since I'm heading up there with the men from my church next weekend and looking forward to the teaching).

I've always found the music at MKC uplifting and powerful without being an example of mere mimicry, and am expecting and hoping for much of the same. It's good, but not for the wrong reasons.

Gordon Cheng said...

If having a good music ministry is Biblical

Woulden have thought so.

So how was it?

Many, many thoughts! But how wonderful and gracious God is to restore our relationship with him, through the atoning death of Jesus alone.

And how thankful I am to Richard Coekin for reminding me of this, and of our heavenly hope.

You might pray for the non-christians who were there that they would respond to such a clear presentation of the gospel.

Craig Bennett said...


On what grounds would you say that its not Biblical to have a good music ministry?

Gordon Cheng said...

Craig, shouldn't you instead ask (and answer) on what grounds is it biblical to have a good music ministry?

And, if you had church without music, wouldn't it still be church?

I distinguish between music and singing. Singing is quite important. The difference between music and singing is the words.

Craig Bennett said...


I would say that music ministry is important and Biblical as the OT shows it was an important part of the temple sacrifice.

David danced before the Lord with music.
Scripture goes into detail about the temple musicians and their families.
It also shows that the school of the prophets prophesied while a band of musicians played in front of them.

Psa 33:1 Sing joyfully to the LORD , you righteous;
it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
Psa 33:2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
Psa 33:3 Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right and true;
he is faithful in all he does.

Here we read that we should praise the Lord with musical instruments, and to play skilfully and to shout for joy.

Here I read of a loud, noisy joyful congregation playing loudly, singing loudly and joyfully to the Lord.

Culturally we don't use the harp and lyre any more, but it is Biblical to play the musical instruments of today skillfully, loudly and for us to sing, shout to the Lord in accompaniment of musical instruments.

Gordon Cheng said...

Got any New Testament for me Craig?

I can't think of a single verse in the 4 gospels or Acts, can you?

I know that Paul and Silas were singing in Acts 16:25 (and like I said, singing is important), but I doubt they had a piano accordion or power for their electric keyboards in prison.

Craig Bennett said...


You are right but if you are going to use that logic then I suggest you start having church without using speakers and microphones. Also I would get rid of the Bibles as they didn't have them either.

From what I understand the NT church was run similar to the way it was in the synagogues and they did have music etc.

Yet Paul says to Timothy that all Scripture is God breathed and useful and when he said that to Timothy he had in mind the OT Scriptures not the NT. Therefore the OT Scriptures talking about music in the temple can be used legitimately to support music ministry in the church and if music was an accepted way to accompany praise to God...what do you think changes that?

Craig Bennett said...

P.S Gordon, I forgot to mention, Paul and Silas were not exactly in church, unless you want to change the parameters of what you call church?

Craig Bennett said...

I also find it strange Gordon that you think it un-biblical or ungodly to use music in praise when the NT is sandwiched between the Old and the Yet to come.
The book of Revelation show's that God gives harps to those victorious over the beast to play and sing to Rev 14:2 and 15:2

Also he gives the 24 elders harps to play with...

I think that the onus is on you to prove that music in church is not biblical.

P.S you better start enjoying music in church here, otherwise eternity is going to be pretty annoying for you....